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3. In Everyday Life, You're Not That Different You Christians, if the transmission in your Camaro explodes, are you going to use prayer to reconstruct it? No, you'll call a mechanic. When your tooth hurts, you don't assume it's possessed by demons. You look for a cavity. Basic, everyday troubleshooting. Well, at the very worst, the atheists are just applying the same common sense, real-world troubleshooting to the God question. At the creation of the universe and in the heart of mankind, they expect to find the same physical, tangible answers they'd find inside a burnt transmission. If they're wrong about God, they're only wrong in that they've taken the tried-and-true troubleshooting we all practice one step too far. On the other hand... Atheists, even if you reject the idea of God completely and claim to live according only to the cold logic of the physical sciences, you all still live as if the absolute morality of some magical lawgiver were true. No, wait. Don't go away. When some guy hustles you out of eighty bucks in an ebay scam, you don't nod and say, "Interesting! This fellow lacks the genetic predisposition toward equitable dealing that generations of sexual selection in favor of social behavior has instilled in the rest of us! A fascinating difference!" No, you think what that guy did was wrong. You want justice. You think he should have acted differently. Even though there's no "wrong" molecule floating in the air and there's no "justice" element on the Periodic Table. You don't think of the swindler as just a fellow animal who happens to behave differently than you. You think he should have acted some other way, according to an invisible ideal that everybody is aware of and knows they should obey. When that "boob at the Super Bowl" incident happened a while back, I constantly heard atheists making fun of Christians and their puritan silliness over sex. "Come on! It's just meat! We're all just mammals! Sex is natural! What are you afraid of?!?!?" Yet, the moment you find out that while you were on vacation, your girl got drunk and slept with the entire Chicago Bears...
Again there's this invisible rule that was supposed to be followed, that everybody was supposed to be aware of, that can't be proven by logic. Whatever it is, wherever you think it came from, you can't deny that it's there. Your own behavior would make you a liar. Well, at the very worst, the Christians are just taking that same moral impulse and applying it to the God question. At the creation of the universe, they expect to find the same invisible hand that pushes us to be fair and loyal and kind. If they're wrong about God, they're only wrong in that they've taken that absolute morality and put a face on it, made an idol out of it. Taken it one step too far. You think of it that way, and the amount of overlap between the two of us is actually pretty striking. Right?
4. There Are Good People on Both Sides This is an easy one. I shouldn't lose anybody here. All you need is examples. Atheists, you can despise a Falwell or the gay funeral protesting guy, but you've known Christians who did it right. Famous ones like Martin Luther King Jr., or just common ones you've run across who seem to have an inexaustible well of generosity and good cheer. You know how many charities have crosses on their logo. Christians... look. The church loves to phrase it like: "The faithful will be joined with their father in Heaven, while the liars, the murderous, the treacherous will be cast down with Satan and his hordes." See the gap there, between the first part of the statement and the second? What about all the people in between? The atheists and Muslims and Buddhists and Scientologists who aren't murderous or treacherous or liars? I understand the concept, that all morality comes from God and thus those on the outside are vulnerable to temptation and the devil and all that. But you know good people who aren't believers. I know you do. You can't miss them. Therefore: If God alone can deliver us from temptation, And, Some people who don't believe in God are also able to resist temptation, Then, God must offer his protection against temptation even to some who don't believe in God. One could even say that God aids the atheist's honest desire to follow one of God's rules... even while he continues to deny God.
Next... 5. Your Point of View is Legitimately Offensive to Them Now, this says nothing about whether or not it's true. For this, I only ask that you understand why they get offended. Everybody is aware that something can be both true and offensive, right? You see a friend holding a newborn baby and you say, "You know, there's a chance he'll die tomorrow." Or you stand over the casket at your uncle's funeral and say, "He'll definitely be consuming fewer of the world's natural resources now." Both statements completely, 100% factually correct, and can be defended to the end of time by cold, undeniable logic. And both are incredibly offensive. To say such things, and to be surprised when the hearers take offense, would show such a profound misunderstanding of human nature that everyone will assume you were raised by wolves. So Christians, knowing what we just said about how it is possible to be a true, honest atheist, that people walk around every day and truly see no evidence of God, can you understand why it's offensive to them to hear that they, and their family, and their children, and their friends, are going to burn for eternity for it? Especially if you, as most modern churches do, imply that people born into other cultures who honestly follow other faiths, are also going to burn? Because they were fooled by Satan? From chick.com
Nobody hates the idea of a creator, or of there being some kind of ultimate justice in the universe. That's not what has these people in such a bad mood. They despise the clique-ish, militant exclusion of it.
Atheists. Same deal. It's irritating to you when they say you and your friends aren't going to Heaven because of your beliefs. But it's just as irritating to them when you say they're not going to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. And the irritation happens on the same grounds, which is, injustice. You hate the idea of all non-Christians burning for eternity, but you're telling them that the mass murderer and kindly grandma will draw the same eternal reward (or lack of). Now, again, both of you are saying, "But I'm factually right in what I'm saying!" And that's fine. For this, all we're doing here is understanding why they're offended by what you say. That's it. Putting yourself in their shoes. Basic human empathy. That's all.
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No. 2:
I really don't know ANY atheists that don't believe religious people actually believe what they believe. However, I have read BOOKS, popular books, whose whole claim is that atheists know deep down that God exists. In fact, if you believe in the Bible, you HAVE to believe atheists know that God exists, because the Bible says everyone knows God exists, that it is apparent from "creation", and that only a fool would say there is no God. That's directly from the Bible. NO person could agree with #2 and simultaneously believe in the Bible. Only atheists can believe in #2, and most every single one of them does.
No. 1, while true, seems to be a straw-man argument. Most atheists books I've read make the point that religion is dangerous not to prove religion invalid, but to prove that religion's exclusive claims to morality, or their claims that "religion makes people better" are bullshit. It's not a "who killed more people?" question, it's a "does the evidence really support your claims?" question.
Oh come on, posting snarky comments on a website forum is completely incomparable to picketing a funeral, or "celebrating" someone's death. If your idea of a "celebration" is posting a sentence-long entry on some stupid internet forum, I feel bad for your kids at Christmas-time.
I just wanted to say that, as a (very dedicated, or at least as dedicated as I can be) Christian, I thought this article was absolutely fantastic. We need more people stating the plain facts that everyone should be able to see if they step out of their own skin once in a while.
jacky5, sorry to say, but you're generalizing. many friends, and myself too(only 1 of my friends is christian, rest atheist) thought this was a great article.
to be fair, neither 1.5 billion christians nor 1 billion non-religious people(aprox. both numbers from wikipedia) can be generalized into one 'group'.
yes, there are horrible atheists out there, and people who will use this article(or any article) to say religion sucks. but theres also great people who are inspired by this article to lead by example.
same for religious people. there are some assholes that claim to be religious, or are religious, yet loads of religious people try to make this world a little bit of a better place.
generalizing never works, especialy when the group you're trying to generalize has 1/10th or more of the worlds population.
Wow David, thanks for painting all of us with such an overly simplistic and ignorant brush. Here's an idea, maybe you should just stick with making the funny stuff happen.
As a Christian I believe it's important to love and respect everyone. However, I don't believe it is necessary to respect a belief that you do not agree with. An atheist would share the same viewpoint. Far too often hatred is spewed towards one or the other in conversation with one another. It's very difficult to have a civilized and intelligent conversation on this matter.
Wow, I really enjoyed reading this. I LOL'd at the captions and several parts of your article, so it gets a thumbs up for entertainment; I also was provoked to thought at appropriate moments, so you win the prize there too.
All in all I come out of it with a new perspective, and feeling like I /didn't/ just waste several minutes of my life. So yeah, thumbs up and kudos all around!
wow, wong, i'm extremely impressed with this article, particularly number three, in which you graciously explained to me that the only alternative to absolute moral relativism was christianity. not countless other religions or dozens of different philosophical treatments of ethics, but good old christianity. thanks!
Wonderful post! As a devout Christian, I think everyone should absorb these well-reasoned observations. We Christians should remember to "Judge Not." Jesus might want me to give you the "Good News," but not badger you to the point that you think all Christians are goofy pains-in-the-ass. Our only job is to love you and abide by the Golden Rule. Or, barring that, just give you a bewildered look and cross to the other side of the street. ... are panhandlers in the Bible? Maybe I've lost my train of thought ...
i belive u are right we need more people that understand each other and not trying to change others people are how they are im atheist and im proud but my best friend is a bible buddy lol so if i was like everyone who hates each other cuz of things they think i would hate him but i dont cuz i think he belives wat he belives cuz will in his mind he is right just like in my mind im right so i agree with u
I like it. You've come up with some excellent points there, and I agree with you.
Wow. This is possibly the worst attempt at a reasoned, nonpartisan religious discussion I've ever read.
And the great part is that because he tries to stroke both sides at once, he utterly fails to be funny to either!
Classic.
amazing how far a little tolerance could go. zealots can think whatever they want.. we wont know until its too late.
interesting article. thought provoking like the one about the 21st century. and i have to say that as a hindu i can understand what you are saying.
I also think that Quantum Physics is going to help in drawing both sides to an agreement. I think that we can actually out-accelerate our own evolutions if were can learn enough.
A great book is called "The Spirit Molecule" by M.D. Rick Straussman in which we studies the Pineal Gland which produces a chemical neurotransmitter, DMT, which is the most psychadelic drug ever and the studies he does connects this chemical with mythical states like seeing god, NDEs, and alien abductions. I still have do read it but an interesting YouTube video is Joe Rogan talking about smoking pure DMT. Crazy stuff!
Wow... the extent to which this misrepresents and misunderstands the thinking of an atheist is really mind-boggling. It's upsetting, because if this is what someone trying to be GENEROUS to atheists thinks... then I guess we really are a severely misunderstood people. How frustrating.
lol. looking at some of these responses, it seems most people just don't seem to get the message of this article...both sides now are using it as a weapon against the other...
We didn't touch them. For once.
Some "super heroes" don't deserve the title.
It is possible to break your brain.
It used to be that to become president, you had to wrestle a bear.
Weird, even for fanfiction.
The Bible: The Poor Man's Hustler.
In the 1600's, violin strings were made by ripping out a sheep's intestines, squeezing the feces out of them like chunky toothpaste, and then doing a bunch of other unsavory stuff that isn't w ...
How to win a fight against twenty children
CNN Wants You To Hate Boobs (or My Cracked Family Is Just Tops In My Book)
ex~
#4: Christians who believe in the Bible must believe "there is none righteous, no not one, not one who doeth good."
To the Christian, all mankind is corrupt, evil, vile, stinking, rotten, dispicable scum to be tossed into hellfire. The only person righteous to a Christian is Christ, and by extension whatever scum believes in Christ so that Christ extends his righteousness to them. Thus Christianity is incompatible with the belief that atheists can be good people.
Only atheists or other non-Christians can believe there are people on both sides who are good.